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Figured wood is drinking clear coat
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10137&t=55454		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  xgabrielx [ Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Figured wood is drinking clear coat
So...this is likely a disaster in progress, so there's no prevention option here.
I made a tele style guitar with an alder body with a figured poplar top, applied a 2 tone sunburst using water based stains, and then acrylic lacquer for the edge to hide the seams. It looks nice....BUT
Since I don't have a spray gun, I've always used oils or rattle cans, so I decided to try a catalyzed clear coat. It goes on lovely on the back of the guitar on the stained alder, lovely on the sides over the acrylic paint, but on the front, half the wood is taking it nicely, the other half seems to be just drinking it. The places that aren't taking the lacquer, match certain elements in the wood's figuring. I didn't notice this when I sprayed the tack coat.
So now I have lacquer going off in the can, and since if it doesn't work, I'll likely be going back to bare wood anyways, I'm just gonna plough on.
I've tried a few extra mini tack coats, just one the patches that are soaking up the laquer. I'm only a few coats in, but I'm wondering if it's ever going to stop drinking.
I think it is being absorbed, rather than repelled away, from the way i can spray a tack coat, and the droplets don't merge, they just sit there and shrink away. I could be wrong though.
Anyone have a problem like this?
I couldn't really use a sealer prior to staining. If I have to start over - and I've already put aside everything I'll be needing for that :) - what's the best way to prevent a repeat?
If I can get away with only having to re-do the top of the guitar, I'm absolutely doing that. :) But there's plenty left in the can, so...hopefully it eventually starets to build up in those patches.
Anyone know any tricks?
Gonna be a lot of sanding in my future either way.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Figured wood is drinking clear coat
You should have sealed AFTER staining.
Author:  xgabrielx [ Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Figured wood is drinking clear coat
Chris Pile wrote:
You should have sealed AFTER staining.

Yep. I figured I could get away with it, cus the top seems to have a tighter grain than the main body, which I've put lacquer on directly before. Apparently not :D It seems to not be drinking as much now. I'm alternating between spraying the whole thing, and just doing the low patches. Hopefully I can get enough on there to flatten everything out. If I have to bring the top back to bare wood, I'm almost tempted to do it with a router sled.

Edit. Actually, I think the patches that I thought were soaking up the lacquer, maybe arent. It appears there's lacquor on there, it's just conforming to the roughness of the wood beneath. I'll try giving it a sand in the morning and see if it's possible to get a flat surface to continue with before the acqer in the can cures. If not, it's no biggie to sand back to bare and start over
Author:  Chris Pile [ Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Figured wood is drinking clear coat
You should strip it with a chemical stripper if it's already been sanded.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Figured wood is drinking clear coat
Eventually with enough coats of the finish, the surface of the wood will become sealed and you can start building a finish.
Author:  xgabrielx [ Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Figured wood is drinking clear coat
Chris Pile wrote:
You should strip it with a chemical stripper if it's already been sanded.

It hasn't yet. I'll have to wait till the morning and see what I have to work with. In this light, I really can't tell if the rough looking patches are caused by the lacquer running away from those areas, soaking into them, or just conforming to roughness beneath. It's seems to be where end grain breaks the surface. I don't imagine the tree was very straight :D
Author:  xgabrielx [ Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Figured wood is drinking clear coat
Barry Daniels wrote:
Eventually with enough coats of the finish, the surface of the wood will become sealed and you can start building a finish.


That's what I'm hoping for. I can't tell just yet what the lacquer was doing. I don't THINK I see any bare wood; it's all taken that wet wood colour, so I might be able to sand to a flat finish. I'm just gonna have to sand until it's either flat, or I sand through the wood stain beneath, and know that It's time to start over. It certainly looks like there's lacquer on those patches. It's just rough. I guess cus they were bands where end grain was poking out. It felt smooth to my fingertips. It's too dark now to get a really good look, but I might have a little sand on one of the rough spots and see if I'm making lacquer dust or wood dust, but I'll wait for sunlight, I think.
Author:  xgabrielx [ Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Figured wood is drinking clear coat
Actually, I think we're good. I just sanded one of the rough patches with a small scrap of sandpaper and my fingertip, and got nothing but lacquer dust, so I sanded the whole patch flat, and it's all lacquer down there. I guess the patches of end grain just drank lacquer up the capillaries, and not from between them, and that created a rough surface that subsequent coats just conformed to. If I'd known that was what was happening, I'd have maybe sanded the whole top flat after a couple of coats before continuing.
Still...at least now I know there's no need to take it back to bare wood. I wish I hadn't gone so heavy for the last coat, cus now I have some drips to scrape away. But that's childs play compared to what I could have spent tomorrow doing.
Disaster averted...probably. Just to be sure, I'm going to finger-sand all the rough patches first, to make sure I don't hit wood anywhere.
I'll post a pic when it's done. It's a nice piece of wood and the sunburst came out pretty nice
Author:  Chris Pile [ Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Figured wood is drinking clear coat
My bad - what I meant was don't sand the wood again, because it was already sanded.
Barry is correct. More finish will eventually seal the wood.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Figured wood is drinking clear coat
Those end grain fibers got wet on the first coats and stood up. A good way to deal with that in the future is to sand the surface and then wet the wood to "raise the grain". Let it dry and sand those fibers down. Now you can apply finish without having such an issue.
Author:  xgabrielx [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Figured wood is drinking clear coat
Image

It's fine now. It's actually a really nice satin finish, considering it's straight out of a rattle can, with no extra flattening or polishing. I might even just leave it as is. I haven't decided yet. The recesses for the control plates only look comically large to allow for the stitched leather surrounds. :D The thick etched brass plate on the back, is only really there cus when I added locking machine heads, they upset the balance and the guitar wouldn't hang at the right angle, so my fretting hand also had to hold the neck up.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Figured wood is drinking clear coat
Post pics when it's complete.
Author:  xgabrielx [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Figured wood is drinking clear coat
Chris Pile wrote:
Post pics when it's complete.

Will do. I'll do the electrics as soon as the finish is done. The electrics are pretty interesting, too. But I haven't decided what pots/caps/resistors to use yet, so I made a test rig.
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